The general concept of EFR

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Azarael
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The general concept of EFR

Post by Azarael » Sun 11 May , 2014 9:04 pm

I was talking with ehi on Skype about this a while ago, but the thread in the ban appeals forum has reminded me.

Is EFR fit for purpose?

ehi raised the point that while EFR was originally added so that players could test weapons without a skill penalty, in practice it is not actually used for this. It's used either as a persistent opt-out from the skill system or to prevent the skill system from tracking the player on maps the player is not skilled on, thus compromising the ability of the skill value to be used for its intended purpose - balancing the teams. Use of EFR also has an effect on the other players - a good player using EFR causes the skill of all opposing players to unduly rise, because good players make a lot of kills. There's also the irritating problem of killing a player only to get nothing for it because they are using EFR.

I would therefore motion that standard EFR be removed entirely and assigned only to players who do use it for its intended purpose. Admin EFR should be broadcasted so that if it is used (with myself being the likely candidate), all players know and justification would have to be given. I can think of no candidates suitable for having access to standard EFR, because iRobot, the only other player I know who seriously tests loadouts rather than sticking to a main, doesn't care about losing skill and will test concepts without using EFR.

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Takeo
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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by Takeo » Sun 11 May , 2014 9:09 pm

Is EFR the concept of "not showing" the skill? I didn't know that it froze the current skill.
I set it up because I don't want my skill to be shown, but I have nothing against it being ranked in the background.

My suggestion would be to implement a feature which allows to enable EFR on one or two maps per player per day. Alternatively enable let it be enabled for one day per week.
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Azarael
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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by Azarael » Sun 11 May , 2014 9:11 pm

It's already available on one or two maps per day. The point is that since it is not used for the real reason it was implemented (testing weapon loadouts, not as an opt-out or a means of dodging unfavoured maps), it should not be available.

EFR is an opt-out command. It's not related to the ability to hide skill and can be used with skill shown.

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Calypto
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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by Calypto » Sun 11 May , 2014 9:15 pm

Donors pay for it, it's useful if you want to join the losing team without having to worry about losing skill.

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iRobot
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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by iRobot » Sun 11 May , 2014 11:42 pm

It's fine as is, but Pinky and Capaco need to have their permissions removed.

Having over 300 uses of EFR is just abusing the skill system. Regardless of what they try to say. The skill system is there to track your play, but it's unable to do so if you're opting out of so many games.

If you take one game as 30 minutes of play, that is over 150 hours solid they have both played and not been tracked for. This is excessive and needs to stop.

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Butcher
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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by Butcher » Mon 12 May , 2014 9:51 am

Azarael wrote:...because iRobot, the only other player I know who seriously tests loadouts rather than sticking to a main, doesn't care about losing skill and will test concepts without using EFR.
Seems the other players don't count!.. I also test the weapons with the EFR, the problem is I only have 2 EFRs per day, so I use them wisely explicitly in maps where I'm constantly Lagged for example Lagheaven. And since there is a change in the weapons most every day, is very difficult to track. I tried darkstar yesterday... is definitely not my weapon,don't feel comfortable with it. Besides is only in Deathmatch or TDM that you may test the weapons apart from skill punishment, but they "feel" different, even if Aza say is exactly the same. Must be my imagination too, as lag it does not exist.
"An BW match is a test of your skill against your opponents' luck." :)

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iRobot
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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by iRobot » Mon 12 May , 2014 10:45 am

Looking at the list, typically seems to be a linear rise in EFR usage as skill rises.

It would be interesting to know everyones true values without any EFR being considered.

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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by Capaco » Mon 12 May , 2014 11:18 am

i didnt use it much last days, cause server is empty anyways until i can use it 7 pm or sth as non donator. I just find it unfair and every donator can use it later of the day. then this has to be removed also.

I undertand you have your advantages as u donate..but why not make it useable for everyone once per day with no time exception

But i must say as there is a balancer now...EFR could be removed for some time?! Or enabled just 1 day when there is a new weapon.
But if removed for everyone or noone.

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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by Butcher » Mon 12 May , 2014 11:48 am

iRobot wrote:Looking at the list, typically seems to be a linear rise in EFR usage as skill rises.

It would be interesting to know everyones true values without any EFR being considered.
Not linear rise, mine remains the same between 6.66 and 6.75 for a long while, but to clarify I started to EFR after Aza nerft every single weapon I used often or I felt comfortable with. In the moment I do not have a standard load out.
And there is a twist everyday in the weapon's balance, even if its not reported in the change log. For example CYLO FS (became so shitty I stopped using it) there was an improvement to it yesterday, still shit, but I noticed there is a small change. HMC changed too. Yes I tried them EFR, I would not dare to try weapons without EFR.
Capaco is the only one that holds himself in the upper skill by playing a map he will gain skill most probably and EFR the other 2 he plays per day. The rest of us play more than 2 games per day, and when there is no EFR, i.e your skill counts. Besides there is other ways some players use: for example joining the loosing team when there is a big score difference, specially when is 5:X, X being <4, the UT seems to give advantage to the players in the loosing team until the 5:5.
"An BW match is a test of your skill against your opponents' luck." :)

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iRobot
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Re: The general concept of EFR

Post by iRobot » Mon 12 May , 2014 12:12 pm

To use Aapchen as an example - one strong weapon can propel you to higher skill bands. When this weapon was fixed, he stopped playing. That is how strong the M46 RDS was in its prime.

Then once in these high skill bands, you can continue to EFR whenever you play. The balancer will then value you as a higher ability player but in reality you might not be.

If you're unable to maintain the same skill using Y weapon when X weapon is altered, then I would personally argue you are not actually at that skill level and the only reason you were was the weapon you were using.

A true skill value should reflect your average play using any and all weapons. EFR usage hinders the balancers ability to correctly weight players, which is odd as that was the primary goal of the skill system - balance.

This is the reason I stopped using EFR and mine has stayed at 42 uses for a long time. I care more for balanced teams than my own personal gratification of skill level. I might lose skill using a different weapon but it happens. I'm not skilled with that weapon.

Setting every slot to 'random weapon' would give you a true reflection of your own average skill.

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