The future of the Invasion server

Discuss the BW-Invasion server here.
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The future of the Invasion server

Post by DickerPitter » Sat 16 May , 2020 8:05 pm

To the Admins and the Players of the Invasion server.

With this post I would like to start a discussion about the future of the Invasion server.

During the last couple of weeks, we have seen several changes on the Invasion server. These changes, of which some where implemented quite poorly, have altered the gameplay for us invasion players in ways we do not appreciate.

We also had somewhat of a discussion with Satin about the interpretation of certain game rules. Since these discussions did not lead us anywhere, I wanted to use this opportunity to start a wider discussion about the server and its future.

I see three subjects we should look at:

1. The recent changes to the usage of the NFUD Combat Wrench have rendered the weapon, for which you must spend a fortune in points to buy, almost useless. You can now only place 1 shield, can’t place bounce pads in front of turrent to do turrent jumps and the shield / teleporter placing has a bug. When you place a shield or teleporter and destroy it to place it somewhere else, you often get an error message that only 1(2) of the items can be place – also none is placed at the time.

This change makes no sense, does not work correctly and is limiting us players in unwanted ways.

I would strongly advise to take this change back and return the NFUD to the function it used to have.

2. There is a discussion between Satin and us players regarding what he calls ‘out of bounds teleporter’. Satin believes that we cannot place a teleporter where he believes there should be none. We strongly believe that this is wrong.

A map designer designs the whole map. There are many maps where you cannot place a teleporter ‘out of bounds’. This is the way the designer wanted it. There are other maps where you can place a teleporter in areas where you cannot walk to directly. Yet you can place your teleporter there. This is what the map designer had in mind when he/she designed the map. Either way, we play the maps in the way the map designers wanted it.

It is our believe that we do not break any rules when we place teleporters where you cannot walk to directly. In particular because in the vast majority of those places you get killed from the monsters anyway. For this I would like to advise the admins to relax more when we do place a teleporter at a place you can’t walk to. We are still playing.

3. It is correct, that some players do take unfair advantage of some bugs when playing the game. This is not OK. However, the way that the admins have altered the gameplay does not solve this problem. It only ruins the fun playing the server.

With over 10 years of UT2004 experience I consider myself a senior player. Based on this experience I would like to suggest three simple steps to improve the gameplay and reduce the cheating, thus gaining back the exceptional reputation the Invasion server once had:

Step 1: Reverse the changes to the NFUD to have it working in the ‘old’ way – and without bugs.

Step 2: Eliminated the max magic +1 and the max magic +2 artefacts. Thus, eliminating the magic weapon bug cheating.

Step 3: Introduce a time limit of 15 min. per round on a map. Do not use individual player time out rules. If a round is not finished in the givven time the players die. This eliminates the farming problem.

Implementing these 3 simple steps will carry the server forward. Otherwise I fear that the popularity of the Invasion server will continue to decline.

Please engage with us on these issues and let us save the server.

All the best
Dicker Pitter

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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Azarael » Sun 17 May , 2020 9:38 am

Regarding the NFUD: the balance of BW is and always has been done on the basis of player versus player. Given the sheer amount of cheese and exploiting available (and necessary) to play on Invasion, I struggle to believe that having a limit of one generator per wrench instance is ruining the server.

Invasion existed and was playable for years before the wrench was available.

However, if there is an issue, then I will look at that when I have the time to do so.

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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Satin » Sun 17 May , 2020 10:21 am

I'll speak again on the OOB thing. The monsters use path-nodes and can only go to certain areas on the map. This is also why the trans-locator was 'nerfed somewhat' on Inv to avoid players getting to places where the monsters can't.

The out of bounds rules were discussed by Admin team collectively a few years back and it was agreed that players should not be going out of the map or under it to avoid the monsters being able to attack them.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that players will invariably hide out someplace where the monsters can't attack and then use turrets or monster herds to engage the enemy monsters.

You partially justify this by saying the maps were built with this in mind, but Inv has evolved with all sorts of things that didn't even exist when the maps were originally made. (teleporters/shields/wrench etc)

Personally, I regard it as cheating, at the very least it's playing the game in such a way to maximise gaining XP at no risk to the player which is at a minimum against the spirit of the game.

If I had my way, I'd remove the monster herding ability altogether and all of this would go away as turrets on their own are not strong enough to withstand waves of monsters.

I've probably spent more time on Inv over the years than any other player, and I never needed to hide under the map or go somewhere that was OOB to have a good time or gain XP, I do find it a little bit WTF that a discussion is happening that seeks to legitimise essentially cheating.

Perhaps other Admin will weigh in and offer an alternative point of view, but that is mine.

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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Jadawin » Sun 17 May , 2020 1:42 pm

The 3 Step approach to improve the gameplay sound quite resonable and seam to solve most problems.

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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Richo » Wed 20 May , 2020 9:24 am

You call it cheating we call it using ingenuity and tactics that are available to all players, that's what warfare is about, winning.
OK you never felt the desire to go OOB, but the players using the server now see that as a valuable tool that make the game more enjoyable. and that's what its ALL about enjoying the game'
The changes to the wrench are hopeless since the game was altered I have played a handful of times instead of daily and to be honest haven't enjoyed it that much if the majority of players are thing this way there wont be any need for the server any more.
Yes I know I'm one of the "culprits" and haven't complained when I've been kicked for AFK, but it should ONLY be done when it stops someone legitimately entering the game.
If you want to fix something how about making it so new players can enter the game at any time, not just at level change?

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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Azarael » Thu 21 May , 2020 1:08 am

I care little for this discussion in general, but violating the boundaries of the map (going under terrain or into regions that weren't intended to be accessed and are unreachable by monsters, etc) is cheating. That's an objective fact.

Everything other than the Wrench issues is Calypto's problem.

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