Ballistic Bro Changelogs Discussion

[iZumo]

Even a damage - damage healed system doesn't cover all strategic effects. If a player runs to heal because you've damaged them and that subsequently has a knockon effect for the remaining members of their team in an engagement, you get no credit for forcing that.

I do not say it is perfect but, as we see now, reliable.

Let's keep the discussion on Freon as opposed to other gametypes, since I don't dispute that there are more issues with skill when applied to Assault or 1on1. Everyone has to thaw, and those who refuse to thaw should impact their own winrate, so I don't see why thawing has to be especially considered. If anything, consider thaws made under fire as giving bonus points.

Allright, let's be more specific to Freon then. First, Everyone has to thaw ... is a weak argument, because you don't have to, you just should, there is no requirement like your thaw points (recalced) have to be at least 4% of your kills. You can see that the thaw points / kills ratio is variant in the ladder.

If you were to be very specific, how you would imagine "raw efficiency" to be calculated (i.e with some numbers and concerning the data we can get)?

[Azarael]

True that the statement should be "everyone should thaw", but if winrate is factored into the skill equation there's a strong incentive to thaw, and good players will.

Calculation for me would be pretty much the same way it is now. ((Damage dealt / damage received) + thaw tracking, however you wish to implement that) * some function of win percentage, taking into account the base skill until the skill balancer is made, at which point anyone not in a range close to 50% win deserves to have a skill penalty. Could even penalise players for general case of disproportiate damage dealt/received vs. thaw points.

[iRobot]

The stats ladder needs to have a Games Played value.

[iZumo]

Calculation for me would be pretty much the same way it is now. ((Damage dealt / damage received) + thaw tracking, however you wish to implement that) * some function of win percentage, taking into account the base skill until the skill balancer is made, at which point anyone not in a range close to 50% win deserves to have a skill penalty. Could even penalise players for general case of disproportiate damage dealt/received vs. thaw points.

Under this if you thaw and expose yourself to a X83, get shot, but survive and replenish health, and have K:D 4:1, then thawing will have to give you 4 * 115 pts (4 * X83 dmg) ~ 1 thawn player = more than 4 kills to ensure you don't get penalized for it. Farmable as fuck, unreliable.

[iRobot]

I dont understand thaw points.

I thaw people whenever I see them, but mine are unusually low in comparison to a lot of people.

[Azarael]

As iRobot has said in the past, law of averages. Shitty situations like that will happen to everyone and you're supposed to avoid the case of being a sitting duck by not taking risky thaws without damage mitigation or clearing. Thaws are hardly worth the risk at the moment either, since getting 2shot or 1shot by an x83 gives a death, whereas a successful thaw or participation in one gives 0.1 skill... and yet thawing can't be too good or people will farm thaws. If it's such a problem, treat it similarly to winrate; those who don't thaw enough are penalised.

[iRobot]

On the topic of skill + thawing, I'd like the thaw protection to be increased from 5s (I think its 5s now??) to 10 at least, without firing of course.

A lot of the time, you're thawed in hot water, so to speak, and will die almost instantly. This gives you a death (rather unfairly I might add) that negatively impacts your skill, even if you 'dont want' to be thawed.

Often I find people will try to thaw me as priority because I'm a stronger player, but this just gets me killed more.

[iZumo]

First, I'm not saying that right now the thaw points are somewhat tuned (actually a change will come).

Second, as I hinted before, the implication of the two directives for the skill is "if you are doing a game objective and end up in better tactical position you must not be penalized" to maintain reliable system. It's not fulfilled in what you suggested (and that has to include shitty situations as well), unless thaw points are lollable. The meaning of expected / supposed is zero unless it's backed up by the skill system.

On the topic of skill + thawing, I'd like the thaw protection to be increased from 5s (I think its 5s now??) to 10 at least, without firing of course.

A lot of the time, you're thawed in hot water, so to speak, and will die almost instantly. This gives you a death (rather unfairly I might add) that negatively impacts your skill, even if you 'dont want' to be thawed.

Often I find people will try to thaw me as priority because I'm a stronger player, but this just gets me killed more.

If you get killed in 10s after you were thawn, your deaths will not increase (regardless of whether you fire or not).

[iRobot]

That's reasonable.

muh skills, etc.

[Azarael]

You're still penalised in K:D or damage-healed if you're killed while thawing or because you thawed someone, even if that action benefitted your team significantly. The only difference is that the penalty is always applied if you're hit in damage systems.