LDG-Gaming

Meh, you weren't there. Unless you're saying dark_elf is a horrible shot and gave the dragonfly free reign.

Arguing with aza is pointless..

But at this point.. he isn't going have much of a say anymore on this issue so..

Yah something has to be done about this.. The whole idea of adding the dragon fly was to encourage players or provide a good distraction for passengers in vehicles going to obj to shoot something that has a mission impact instead of them shooting random nonsense. At least that's the way i see it. However as most of you can attest to there is mabey about 5% of the players on the server that will shoot the dragon fly. They much rather shoot things at ground level or just don't want to do the track at all and sit there in spawn shooting enemy team the moment they hit the ground out of there base.

Now the camping out of spawn can easily be fixed but it shows that players much rather shoot players that are ground level then rather then get 1/3 to 2/3 to the objective just to be shot down by a dragon fly without a clue in the world. (Note for the dragon fly this extremely satisfying and rightly so! but for the Driver of the car and having this happen after 3 to 5 times in a one match is enough to make anyone rage quit regardless of who you are.)


Now because of this no one will drive the track which means you got people driving the track that either A: Know the track and have a decent gunner to attempt to do obj or B: Newbs that will drive solo or scorpions(why are they even in the map?) and not make it past the first 1/3rd of the track if there lucky. Which means all your dragon fly has to do is kill that one car over and over. Now think about this logically for the love of GOD!!! It takes 4 shots with bender to take out dragon fly and it takes a dragon fly 4 shots to kill hellbender if its got a good driver to activate shield or 1 shot against the hell bender to kill the vehicle if he misses his key to activate shield. With perfect well aimed shots with the hellbender it takes anywhere from 45 seconds to 1 min to take out dragon fly. The track its self takes anywhere from 3 to 4 min to complete. That means in that time you have to fight off the dragon fly 3 times.. Hellbender 4 shots to kill it and dragon fly 1 shot to make it happen unless hellbender saved some shields from the previous attacks.

I don't understand how you can justify saying that there is nothing over powered about the dragon fly its no longer about how easy it is to be shot its not about the damage the dragon fly dose either its about the time all about the TIME! Xales knows this and others are picking up on it to.. the only reason why anyone is getting the objective in these maps with a decent dragon fly flyer is because the dragon fly flyer allows it to happen by shooting non essential people along the way that are not a primary threat to obj while the threat gets some extra time to make it to obj before you return to finish your job.

If you can't understand this then i give up trying to explain this to you.. We will argue to someone that has influense over this issiue and is willing to make the proper changes to make it balanced for ground and air(EVERYONE).

darkelf wrote:Arguing with aza is pointless..

darkelf wrote: The track its self takes anywhere from 3 to 4 min to complete.

Before you argue the time factor.. yes i said 3 to 4 min.. that's based off of the 2nd obj track in sunshine the 1st obj is much shorter and can be done in 1 min 30 seconds or 2 min. The other two objs are 3 to 4 min.

and yes I just quoted myself!

There can be easy solutions:
Rise the spawntime for Dfly, which has already been suggested;
also add more shields for benders: 3 shields of 5sec each allow you to avoid 1 to 2 bombs in the best of the cases. But what is more annoying is that the bender takes the damages even when shielding which means that even if you use it you can be destroyed quite easily, even if the dfly is destroyed once (as said by darkelf, you must fight the dfly at least twice before going to the 2nd and 3rd obj). So 3 shields of 10sec, or better 5 shields of 5sec would leave a greater chance to survive.

Even with a good gunner, it's extremely frustrating to be able to kill the dfly and seeing it coming back 20 seconds later above your head whereas you're half destroyed...

I maintain Dragonfly, so pestering goes to me.

I had no problem shooting down THEXalez when I was gunning either. 4 shots, he dead np, and driver consumed one shield, however of course we got bomb'd several times.

As of now, there exists a variant of TWB with 5 shields and air control for a while, you have to pester Socio why he left scrops and normal TWBs in bombshine . Considering balance, the intention was to purge Solo drivers. Comparing to Venoms, in Venom it's very easy for you to kill an occupied TWB (and basically in OLDZ level, i.e TWB would have to display quite skill against a lamer in Venom => so that is lame, yes), Dragonfly is the opposite, but eventually you can get a killing shot on long tracks, yes (depending if you catch a shot from some shot en-route or not) - even though the pilot has to display skill to shoot a bender down, once he gets it, the success rate is too high and ability for the benders to avoid the bomb is practically not existant. Therefore I'm not accepting arguments type of "buff dfly - they have it easy to shoot you down".

A better solution is in the works, a different vehilce (Atlas alias lolcar) with a different rear gun (modified Venom lasers) and toggleable shield (no nitro when shielded though), solos won't have shield.

There is also another "bug" pretty lame, it's that kind of double damage taken when you get bombed low flying. Not sure if it is intended, but it will be nice to remove it.

Thats just the bombs themselves, they have the initial damage when they hit, then they have a second explosion damage like 0.3 seconds later. Not sure if intentional, as you say.

With perfect well aimed shots with the hellbender it takes anywhere from 45 seconds to 1 min to take out dragon fly.

Stopped reading here.

Rear gun charge time: 2.5 seconds.
Type: Instant-hit
Range: 20,000 UU
Assumed miss rate: 20%
TTK (single bender): 12.5 seconds

Dragonfly range: 0 (directly above)

I can't respect you if you can't even get your facts straight.

Nobody is asking for a buff to the Dragonfly yet. The argument was that in a server of THEXalezes, iRobots, Izumos, etc (where everyone is a peer) the Dragonfly would be underpowered, and thus by the ACTUAL definition of balance, which assumes EQUAL SKILL, is underpowered. I will viciously oppose any nerf whose underlying basis is to bring some players down because others are shit. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand.

But whatever, do as you wish. I can see the strategy has now changed to cutting out users you find inconvenient, so I'll simply laugh when we finally get to the stage where people are shooting properly and nobody wants to fly anymore, which is clearly your intended aim.

If you intend to do anything, increase the respawn time and give Benders a projectile weapon. If Benders aren't going to get a projectile weapon, increase the HP to the dragonfly to compensate for the downtime, but that's a shit fix because it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of Dragonflies being a free hit.

---

In fact, even better idea.

Rig up some twin beam scorps with shield, make a version of Sunshine with only those, gather anyone with half a brain onto the test server and let's put this shit to bed once and for all.

Azarael wrote:

With perfect well aimed shots with the hellbender it takes anywhere from 45 seconds to 1 min to take out dragon fly.

Stopped reading here.

Rear gun charge time: 2.5 seconds.
Type: Instant-hit
Range: 20,000 UU
Assumed miss rate: 20%
TTK (single bender): 12.5 seconds

Dragonfly range: 0 (directly above)

Your figures assume you shoot every 2.5 seconds, when you don't. Half of the time the Dragonfly is out of sight, be it behind another portion of track, underneath your current road, or simply moving too fast for you to track it. You can't deny it moves quickly. 20% miss is probably unrealistic also, as a gunner you have no control over the driver, any turns or sudden speed boosts/decelerations they make, affect your aim also. You might even be shooting other hellbenders.....

I have no issue with the dragonfly itself, I just feel the respawn timer is too short. You should not have to fight off 2, 3 or sometimes even 4 of them just to get to one objective. Particularly when you already have other hellbenders to contend with from the opposing faction.