Freon's Camper punishments.

[Azarael]

Some things I have been thinking of trialling.

• If a weapon has been fired within the time period of the camp check, and that weapon is not suppressed, skip the camp check.
• If a player has dealt damage to another player within the time period of the camp check, skip the camp check. (More stringent version of the above.)
• Ballistic turret users are immune to camp damage, but are tracked by anticamp as normal, with grace period similar to water camp checks. If the grace period is exceeded, the player is marked on the HUD with a turret icon until the next camp check.
• Ballistic turret users are immune to camp checks, but all turrets permanently display an icon showing their presence if players are close enough.
• Camp checks only activating when the number of active players on one side is below a required threshold.

The first two are designed to allow players in combat to make use of cover without having to break cover by moving simply because the camp check will hit them. The next two are designed to alleviate the issues with using turrets in Freon. We should bear in mind that these checks exist solely to defeat players hiding away, and that in some cases, players are already able to defeat the current checks by running around to beat the history box. Had Freon initially been developed for BW, which can be static at times (mainly because of cover) and not UT2004 (which is never static, there is no incentive at all to camp in UT2004) I believe the camp checks would have been different.

Additionally, while I'm aware that some readers may not appreciate the concept of the deployed weapons, remember that their balance is tentative. Currently they work as spread, spam weapons in order to encourage players to use them, but they can easily be reworked into standard-type weapons with accuracy, a proper crosshair and recoil.

[Nardaq_NL]

what about the heal nade and losing a few hp due the camper warning? ....must... CAMPER WARNING....get....max...hp...out ...of ...that...CAMPER WARNING...nade......

[Azarael]

The heal nade has been adjusted to heal you over 7 seconds.

[giZmo]

• If a weapon has been fired within the time period of the camp check, and that weapon is not suppressed, skip the camp check.
• Ballistic turret users are immune to camp damage, but are tracked by anticamp as normal, with grace period similar to water camp checks. If the grace period is exceeded, the player is marked on the HUD with a turret icon until the next camp check.
  
  It´s worth a try
• If a player has dealt damage to another player within the time period of the camp check, skip the camp check. (More stringent version of the above.)
• Ballistic turret users are immune to camp checks, but all turrets permanently display an icon showing their presence if players are close enough.
  
  Too much imho....maybe if the above don´t bring the wanted results.
• Camp checks only activating when the number of active players on one side is below a required threshold.
  
  Would slow down the gamespeed to much....a little bit of pushing through the camper warning is good for some players

[iZumo]

My imagination would be something towards merge the anticamp behaviour towards deployed weapons and snipers. I generally don't think that giving special priviledges to deployed weps is a good idea.

• Anticamp would start doing damage after 30s (getting warned twice at 20s and 25s) instead of 15s (getting warned once at 10s) and would require to travel you 3x greater distance. This would not apply for water anticamp.
• Technically anticamp would save players travel relatively. This way we could remove the "trick" when one falls down and uses a lift, because we could cap the maximum travel distance between interval.
• With the exception of OT, doing a certain amount of damage will postpone the camp check.
• In OT, you have to deal certain amount of damage in a period or you'll get radared (talked about this before in Mass Freon topic)
• In OT, if you deal certain amount of damage in a period, you will not receive OT damage penatly for some time.
• In OT, you'll get immediatelly radared when you are in a turret.
• Teaminfo HUD would show if the player is in turret or not.
• Better HUD to show camping. I was thinking of using the teaminfo HUD to show camping / radar, as well a sound alert.

[giZmo]

Sorry but don´t you think this is exaggerated ? Sure there has to be done something but keep in mind that it´s still a game who should make fun for the people playing it.

I don´t know how to write in english what i really wanna say but i´ll try it with a short phrase:

To much regulations result in lower fun

[Azarael]

No need to apologise for making a comment.

I would still like to press the point that the issue is not strictly with camping per se; the basic move speed is higher than in other games, movement is more complex and the map design in most cases does not favour camping. The sole reason for the existence of the anticamp is to thwart attempts at hiding away and prolonging rounds. If a player can maintain the same position, but can also be easily located by other players, the purpose of the "anticamp" is thereby fulfilled and there is no further issue.

I don't necessarily agree with the first tweak. When implementing a procedure, it is always far better to err in favour of the guilty to spare potential injustice on innocents, a principle which also exists in law. I fear that a much wider box could be triggered unintentionally more often than we think.

I also need to emphasise that footstep volume in BW is increased significantly over the default game, as players like giZmo who use sound will know. Players attempting to hide by moving around within a room just enough to dodge anticamp ticks may still be heard, and I'd wager that's how they are found given that we have had players use this technique and it hasn't worked very often.

[iZumo]

Sorry but don´t you think this is exaggerated ? Sure there has to be done something but keep in mind that it´s still a game who should make fun for the people playing it.

I don´t know how to write in english what i really wanna say but i´ll try it with a short phrase:

To much regulations result in lower fun

It's not really to put there many regulations. I rather see a difficulty with technically defining camping (which I tried to define in first three points). The problem is that unlike in CS, neither team has extra motivation to go after another. Then we intend to reduce round time in OT (second three points).