Aircraft in RACE maps

[ZioFede]

nah, EMP>>>>tractor beam

[Pelaaja]

We need anti air benders!

[iZumo]

Hmm, the result of the poll is quite interesting, especially the Raptor:

Dragonfly: 10 - 8
Venom / Havoc: 7 - 11
Raptor: 17 - 2

[Azarael]

They like the Raptor because it is garbage. It's not a combat vehicle and the Hellbender is its direct counter in ONS. The Raptor is a mobility vehicle with much of its combat utility in harassing vehicles to which it is immune (Manta/Scorp/SPMA/Paladin) and effective (Goliath/Cicada). The one vehicle which Race maps are based on is the hard counter, so of course racers are going to say they're happy with it in maps.

Nice to see balanced voting going on.

[iRobot]

le raptor with le venom firepower =

[Azarael]

Nope, that would be completely the wrong approach. The hit rate of twin beams against Raptor approaches 80%, even from shitters.

[iRobot]

Your point?

You seem to be pushing for aerial vehicles to have a long lifespan, which I don't think is the correct model. They should be able to attack and destroy one or two vehicles only before dying. Currently a Venom can survive a whole map, although partly down to the ridiculous self healing that is totally unnecessary.

It is not uncommon to see the Venom user, even Señor Average, getting Unstoppable or higher on a typical 10+ minute race map.

Additional note: The Venom's dominance is perpetuated even further by the users having truces and not attacking each other. Everyone 'enjoys' flying in this overpowered vehicle so a gentlemens agreement to both enjoy them together happens pretty much every game.

[Azarael]

I'm not advocating that the Venom's strength is correct. I'm advocating that the Raptor's mobility is so pathetic that the difference between a shitter and the best player in the world is absolutely nothing - both are going to get hit on almost every shot. Not only is that utterly boring since it completely removes any interest in the movement aspect of play, it's also a recipe for disaster - the more populated a map becomes, the more your ass is going to get kicked before you can even hit anything. Any aircraft model should include the ability to evade twin beams. That shouldn't be removed just because it comes too close to the idea of "aim" for race players.

I'm removing the Venom from all race maps.

[iRobot]

Added a note above.

I don't disagree about Twin Beams being easy, when the Hellbender is stationary. The fact you have no control over the drivers movements pushes the accuracy far below your estimates.

This leads to the awkward situation where the driver stops so the gunner has a chance, but this actually benefits the Venom more as they can now obliterate the Hellbender faster.

I think we all agree the Venom is too agile, and the Raptor is too immobile. Perhaps a middle ground is required. The vertical mobility of the Venom is particularly troublesome. Most users will just abuse this to go up, shoot and down below the road before you can even react.

[Azarael]

Twin beams against a Venom if the driver moves unpredictably are almost impossible. I will not disagree on that. I will, however, say that the accuracy against Raptor is extremely high regardless of what the driver does, because the Raptor's acceleration is terrible.