Adim Abuse

[Spin]

@Oska

I don't want to screw her. I was just making a point about admin abuse. And in my particular case it was gizmo who abused.

@TRG

You did not have admin, but you had ability to kick prior to that incident. I can prove it.

EDIT: have-> had

[Oska]

The only point that I meant, as I already said if you dared reading, was to show Azarael his lack of action regarding one particular rule. If you don't apply all rules on the same level you should rework the rules.
If at that time the rule regarding pornography did not exist I wouldn't have said that.

One of the worse thing here is that you are making all this drama just because Michie was MUTED and because Spin was KICKED months ago.
Gizmo once session banned me for the fun of it, it lasted 4 mins and I did not complain about it, because there is nothing to complain about.

[Spin]

Yeah you might be right here, but in all these incidents there was an ADMIN ABUSE. Now please take your time and read topic title again.

[iZumo]

@Oska: First, one thing is, that when giZmo bans you for fun, he also knows you take is as a fun, so there is obviously no problem here. This was not the case with Michie. Second, Aza actually could ban if he wanted to back then if nobody else took the situation in their hands yet; it's just as placing bans from reports / logs (happens) - if Aza decided not to ban (either if he thought he wasn't supposed to or didn't want to ban) then it's his decision and he doesn't have to explain it to you (non-admin). Third, we will make our own mind about the rules, thanks.

@Spin: We have already settled that. My original understanding from your's (and giZmo's post too) was, that it happened after that.

@General - I don't see a problem with Michie getting muted for two matches, in his particular case even if it was in a purely abuse manner. If you're annoying, I don't find unreasonable when admin annoys you back. Don't expect admins will be in 100% mood for you all the time (this doesn't cover longer-term mutes / bans ofc).

[Spin]

Izumo thing is that some admins, and I have to admit I don't really know who admins on BW are, are cool, some aren't and this is what this thread is about.

Quite some people hae been banned/kicked/muted in last few years. Some actions were justified some werent. You have to understand that admins are somewhat similar to cops. You have the powers, but you should know when to use it. I never saw a problem with you, aza, mecha, pinky, takeo. (I don't know if all of you are admins on BW). But there are other admins who, wel I don't know, are trigger happy. Also I think you should be the ones to help newbies. I don't think you will believe me, but yet again same admins help them and others, well don't.

As for michie, yeah i understand he is pain in the ass. But again some others are even bigger. Just be consistent.

Admin abuse is the topics. You guys can try to justify your actions or look in the mirror and see what you can do better. If you do that then simple "overruled" will be enough to close threads like this.

[Michie]

@Oska: First, one thing is, that when giZmo bans you for fun, he also knows you take is as a fun, so there is obviously no problem here. This was not the case with Michie. Second, Aza actually could ban if he wanted to back then if nobody else took the situation in their hands yet; it's just as placing bans from reports / logs (happens) - if Aza decided not to ban (either if he thought he wasn't supposed to or didn't want to ban) then it's his decision and he doesn't have to explain it to you (non-admin). Third, we will make our own mind about the rules, thanks.

@Spin: We have already settled that. My original understanding from your's (and giZmo's post too) was, that it happened after that.

@General - I don't see a problem with Michie getting muted for two matches, in his particular case even if it was in a purely abuse manner. If you're annoying, I don't find unreasonable when admin annoys you back. Don't expect admins will be in 100% mood for you all the time (this doesn't cover longer-term mutes / bans ofc).

Thanks for saying it was Adim abuse / mean. To be honest I wish I would have let it go.But kinda late now.Oska stop saying im saying Faggot, Fag isHuge Differents. Your a trouble maker.You fight with a lot of others and pick at everything.We been over the word Fag long time ago so get over it.Hell I was on today and someone said let me teach your mom how to fuck!!!! So don't act like im so bad.Your no better.If you want others to cross their T's and dot their I's then step up to the plate and prove you can do it .You must have no idea what is said when your not on.You would crawl up in a corner like a baby .Put on your Man Pants and have fun. Time to grow up. Or become a Monk.Peace.

[Oska]

It has apparently been decided that Eiforia's mute was justified. Now the only abuse that you are referring to with valuable proof is Gizmo kicking you for saying "she is everybody's darling". IMO it was indeed an abuse run by Gizmo's feelings, but it was a long time ago and I'm afraid that it's too late to complain.

@Izumo:
Yes Azarael can ban me for that reason. But then if one would follow the rule as strictly as it is followed for the "nigga" word, Tequilla should be banned for having pornographic names (according to the rule 3c), Michie should be banned for sexism (according to the rule 3k), and if one pushes it even more Azarael should ban himself for saying:

anyway, did someone put their salami into your mama's underwear or something?

ages ago since it breaks the rule 3e and 4a, with a specified insult to my mother.
Then if you keep going in that way half of the server should be banned since we all have once broken the rules at several levels.

So to conclude on that "nig*a" word I've been using, Azarael perfectly knows that I've never meant to call him a "nigga", and that the only reason of that word was to point out an issue regarding the rules and the way they are followed.

And to conclude on that Admin Abuse matter I would like to raise a rule that all of you (admins) are often raising:

4b) Admins are always right.

if so the word Abuse should not be in the same phrase as Admin. If you follow strictly this rule "Admin Abuse" would be a complete oxymoron. Once again it might be the time the rework the rules.

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@Michie: From Wikipedia: "Faggot, often shortened to fag, is a pejorative term used chiefly in North America primarily to refer to a gay man.".
I understand that you do not mean it in that way, but yet that's how other players (including me) do receive it.

[iZumo]

@Oska & Spin: I'm not going to debate rule consistency. If you don't accept our rules, you don't have to play here, period. You can either "report" abuses or "appeal" when you're banned, not "request for ban", but the decision lies solely within admins, including the decision whether we will debate that. Other admins can debate that if they want to, for me I'll just state that different admins see things differently and generally for insults / chat offenses, BW #1 has a tighter policy. One more thing for Oska - if admin refuses to ban and you try to take things into your hands by flaming, expect to get banned for annoyance.

@Spin: As far as I know, everybody from the UT2004 admin team had some issue (myself included).

@Michie: fag or faggot - not bannable, unless you say it in every chat line or are annoying with it.

[Michie]

It has apparently been decided that Eiforia's mute was justified. Now the only abuse that you are referring to with valuable proof is Gizmo kicking you for saying "she is everybody's darling". IMO it was indeed an abuse run by Gizmo's feelings, but it was a long time ago and I'm afraid that it's too late to complain.

@Izumo:
Yes Azarael can ban me for that reason. But then if one would follow the rule as strictly as it is followed for the "nigga" word, Tequilla should be banned for having pornographic names (according to the rule 3c), Michie should be banned for sexism (according to the rule 3k), and if one pushes it even more Azarael should ban himself for saying:

anyway, did someone put their salami into your mama's underwear or something?

ages ago since it breaks the rule 3e and 4a, with a specified insult to my mother.
Then if you keep going in that way half of the server should be banned since we all have once broken the rules at several levels.

So to conclude on that "nig*a" word I've been using, Azarael perfectly knows that I've never meant to call him a "nigga", and that the only reason of that word was to point out an issue regarding the rules and the way they are followed.

And to conclude on that Admin Abuse matter I would like to raise a rule that all of you (admins) are often raising:

4b) Admins are always right.

if so the word Abuse should not be in the same phrase as Admin. If you follow strictly this rule "Admin Abuse" would be a complete oxymoron. Once again it might be the time the rework the rules.

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@Michie: From Wikipedia: "Faggot, often shortened to fag, is a pejorative term used chiefly in North America primarily to refer to a gay man.".
I understand that you do not mean it in that way, but yet that's how other players (including me) do receive it.

Wiki is blinding a lot of you guys and Ladies. Don't know if I said she everyone darling or spin. But if it was me its a complement. As Sandra Bullock Hollywood sweetheart. I have no ill feelings towards her other then the mute. But I know she Younger then my daughter.....so I know. Not a big deal. Oska your really going to far buddy. BTW im a Fag so you know .A big one at that .Is that against the rule that im a Fag ? Or am I goy or gay Shall I go on ? Me and Adim been over this Fag stuff long ago and it ok Oska. Don't worry so much .We wont touch you Chill young Rabbit )

[Spin]

@Oska & Spin: I'm not going to debate rule consistency. If you don't accept our rules, you don't have to play here, period. You can either "report" abuses or "appeal" when you're banned, not "request for ban", but the decision lies solely within admins, including the decision whether we will debate that. Other admins can debate that if they want to, for me I'll just state that different admins see things differently and generally for insults / chat offenses, BW #1 has a tighter policy. One more thing for Oska - if admin refuses to ban and you try to take things into your hands by flaming, expect to get banned for annoyance.

@Spin: As far as I know, everybody from the UT2004 admin team had some issue (myself included).

@Michie: fag or faggot - not bannable, unless you say it in every chat line or are annoying with it.

Not sure what you wanted to say here Izumo. So let me explain my POV. I backed Michie, because I was target of abuse quite some time ago. I didn't write in forum and I didn't PM'd other admins. I just stopped communicating with people involved in that "incident". However I didn't like how michie was treated(read first 3 or so replies on his initial post), so I backed him up.

About issues to admin team. Again it's just a POV. I never saw anything against some admins. However in Michies case and in my case, Aza didn't like admin actions. So don't bring up that "if you don't like rules" BS. Acutually I don't think it is me not following rules...