What do people want?

[CaptainXavious]

Longer time to kill (more HP) also reduces the chances of some random shot (from perhaps another room with different people fighting) killing you, in addition to the fact that spraying randomly will prove to be more useful than it currently is.

You also stay fighting longer.

[Azarael]

Another aspect is reaction time. In CoD, you can be killed before you have a chance to react at all.

[focus]

For the start. Bring back the old maps. Revert silly changes to maps. Allow to play maps even if they are small and number of players is high. It was still fun.


UrbanHotZone (without teleporter!)
Beach (Its good even with lot of players. I liked it with lot of players. some call it spammy, but i dont mind)
Warmbody
Highlander
That map with staircase, kitchen, bathroom, ladder, etc (already forgot its name )
FromHell

other maps (especially those which were played really long time ago, at the dusk of the server)

Allow back KS2 donations from KS1
Make HAMR more useful. For example, move it to KS1
Revert modifications to staves

In general, i want good old times back.

[Definitelynotjay]

That map with staircase, kitchen, bathroom, ladder, etc (already forgot its name )

How dare you forget the greatest map ever created!

But anyway.
changes to staves: absolutely not. you'll just get half the server spamming the op weapons.
Putting HAMR to ks 1: Plausible. However, it can be used just fine as ks 2 ( for proof look at a couple of days a go with the great Azaraels kill spree.
Ks 2 donations from Ks 1: no idea. i like it the way it is. you have to earn it before you can give it.

Side note: maybe for the "revert changes", the un-modified maps could simply be added as well

[Maszzmic]

Without going into much detail what to nerf and how to organize weapons and stuff, I will tell one major thing what I really liked and still when playing LDG BW:

Sometimes I have been playing rounds where the winning side tipped over to the other team 4 times in a row, back and forth, and that was LOADS of fun. It was fun to see the balance tipping every time, that resulted in very tense rounds. For a part that is good balanced teams, but it also requires the right maps and it requires the right tools for last players in a team to utilize. (hiding spots / some other bonuses which have not yet been invented)

Last weekend I discovered the difference between "American style" board games and "German style" or "European style" board games. I think this concept clarifies what I as a player am searching for:
American style Board games (best example: monopoly and risk) tend to make the winning players even more winning (rich players get more rich in monopoly) and the loosing players to loose even harder (poor people have to pay their butts off to the tycoons). Also player can be eliminated completely out of the game, and have to wait until the game is finished.
German style board games (best example: settlers of Catan) tend to give the loosing side bonuses, and slow down the winning side from reaching their goal. Also players stay alive until the end of the game.

When I think about this, LDG BW can be classified as a German style shooter:
1) Winning team gets less HP, loosing team more HP (don't actually know if this is true, but in ordinary Team Arenamaster this is the case)
2) People don't die and have to wait until the round has passed, but instead are frozen and eventually can re-enter the round

But there is 1 thing (now I think of it) that doesn't classify as 'German', and that are the killstreaks. They make people that are already good even better, so that they can eliminate the loosing team even faster.

So, without guns and nerfing and other complicated stuff:
When I am the last player alive, or 1 of the 2 last players, I am eager to save my team. I would love to save all of them, and tip the balance of the game. But for that I need tools, which are not yet in place. An example can be that you regenerate when you are the last person alive (to stay alive longer running around and thawing other players), or you gain more speed (again, to run around). As the last player you generally don't go for the kill and alerting the enemy team by fired shots, but you go ninja-mode

Ok. To make things short: balanced teams & German style game setup. Make the poorer richer, and the richer poorer.

(and besides from that I have nothing to complain )

[Azarael]

For the start. Bring back the old maps. Revert silly changes to maps. Allow to play maps even if they are small and number of players is high. It was still fun.


UrbanHotZone (without teleporter!)
Beach (Its good even with lot of players. I liked it with lot of players. some call it spammy, but i dont mind)
Warmbody
Highlander
That map with staircase, kitchen, bathroom, ladder, etc (already forgot its name )
FromHell

other maps (especially those which were played really long time ago, at the dusk of the server)

Allow back KS2 donations from KS1
Make HAMR more useful. For example, move it to KS1
Revert modifications to staves

In general, i want good old times back.

Maps which were removed were added back.

However, I will not revert changes to maps just because you are complaining about them. That goes for anyone else, that's where the line in the sand is drawn. If you can't put reasons forward for why the changes are bad, you will be ignored.

KS1 to KS2 donations were removed because they became the absolute optimum for KS1, especially if you gamed the donation or were lucky enough to pass the KS2 to a good player who didn't need to benefit from that donation. If someone wants to be truly altruistic and donate KS2, they can. If not, then no KS2 for you.

HAMR request seems like a complete oddity, do you have some kind of affinity for it? It's a map-dependent weapon.

Staves are fine.

[Butcher]

KS1 to KS2 donations were removed because they became the absolute optimum for KS1, especially if you gamed the donation or were lucky enough to pass the KS2 to a good player who didn't need to benefit from that donation. If someone wants to be truly altruistic and donate KS2, they can. If not, then no KS2 for you.

Well, it is because the people knew to whom the KS" it will go: the one that has the net closer to 0 and positive. But in my opinion the player that should receive it shall be absolutely random. Same chances to a good player than to a bad player. I believe there are not so many people willing to donate their precious KS2, specially because the people that are able to earn a KS2 normally will not donate but farm it. KS1 applies also... the good players will indeed use it instead of giving it away.
I suggest KS1 donation should actually be a random donation ending up to a random player with a random KS1 or KS2, not the one they have in their loadout. That way if you donate, you may also get a KS too.

Staves are fine.

I disagree, I've test them in invasion and couldn't hit anything with them. Bolt fire rate is too low, Fast rate mode is too inaccurate, and the plasma/lightning drains the energy too fast making very low damage. The melee in Dark is ok, but in Nova sucks badly. And the other modes are not to be used unless you have full souls, else you make more harm to yourself. I suppose is very hard to find an equilibrium for these multifunctional weapons. I have to say that are better now while they are UP rather than the OP, but they are not fine. I think before the recent tweaking of them they were fine.

[iRobot]

I am not a fan of the current donation system. I used to be able to trade my KS1 to give the team a KS2, and while I know they probably wouldn't use the KS2 as well as I could myself, I felt I was contributing.

Why would I donate a KS1 or a KS2 now, and risk getting nothing from it, when I could just claim it myself and easily get it's worth? It's simply a choice between a KS2 for me or a KS2 for someone with negative net on my team. Why in any scenario would I ever choose the latter? So on that, Butcher is correct. I will not give away KS2, ever. I am also a fan of the Golden Eagle, so I would rarely if ever donate a KS1.

It is also hindered by the way the choice system is. Sometimes mid round, depending on the scenario, I might prefer to donate rather than claim for myself, but I am locked to the choice set. Donation would be nice on a separate key or something.

On the other note, staves are now low tier and something I'd only use when I'm bored of playing seriously. This is not a fault of the balancing, as I know without backlash they are just spammed to hell. It's just the weapon design.

[focus]

My point is that topic is called 'What people want'. And it implies that i can state my opinion here.
Possibly quite subjective.

1. I feel that some time ago the game was more enjoyable. Now, it is marred by introducing outlandish changes. Like this with staves. IMO it was much better to lower effort necessary to obtain 'god/demon mode' then to move super firemodes right to the normal mode itself.

2. Changes in maps. They are unnatural. Some of them do wreck the gameplay of the map. Their purposes are not always well-founded. Anti-spam? See item 4. Not to mention that they do ruin map aesthetics. If they are supposed to be introduced, much more care should be applied on them.

3. Removing maps from the mapset is also a problem. Enjoyable maps were removed on the basis of 'they have unequal balance between the teams'. I dont care. I was having fun on DM-Beach even if it was unbalanced. I didnt care even if our team was doomed to lose because it was spawning in the sea all the time. Storming bunkers and sniping people from islands was a real fun.

4. This anti-spam campaign which i witness is also questionable. Not everyone wants to train their skills. Spam is fun for the whole stratum of players. Personally, i find it enjoyable to try to kill bombom in the Highlander tunnels, for example. If you remove sources of fun for the low skillers, deny them in opportunity to get kills, then instead of training their skills they probably would find a more attractive game to play. Or they may choose to spend their time in a more useful way then playing games and/or drearily improving their point-and-click reaction time.

5. My most important point is that things on the server have already went far. There was a lot of time wasted. Its wrong to bring things to such state and take steps only now. Our minecraft experiences say that returning players is a hard task. Even if you would remove all changes made, that also can be not enough. Although, i dont think that it all is too late.

All of this is not a big secret. I was telling it all the time. So, im telling this again at the forum.


Now about details with KS and HAMR.

6. Ok, dont allow KS2 donations from KS1. But its disappointing that basically, very few players are able to get access to such weps in game. Opportunity to get them by donation was really nice. Now, its gone. Maybe its possible to devise other way to distribute them? Not by donation, but some other way?

7. I've noticed that HAMR is a cumbersome weapon. So, if one by a lucky chance gets KS2, he would hardly choose it, when there are so many much more attractive options available, like grenade launcher, AT40, etc. Its good idea IMO to move it to KS1 then. It would fit fine there, near G5.

[iXtl]

...

Most reasonable post in this thread.