I call BS.(not crying)

[Shihan]

The vehicles need better guns to take out the venom or DF. Shooting with the guns on a lolcar is a waste of time. Give lolcars a machine gun or twin beam. I suggest slightly depowering venoms and slightly upgrading anti flyer weapons. Tweak gently until a balance is struck.

[iRobot]

Twin Beams is too easy, it's simply point and click. The green shit is too hard though. This is for dragonflies specifically.

It is difficult to hit a Venom with twin beams due to its size and mobility, two things it has over the dragonfly.

[Azarael]

I was under the impression that the problem with the Venom was its burst firepower. I'm averse to slowing down gunships because a) their speed and mobility are necessary for their own anti-air gameplay and b) it's a question of aim, something a lot of race players don't have. I don't like the suggestion that because race players in general can't aim, the mobility should be nerfed. Otherwise we might as well suggest that Assault could be made tolerable by slowing the players down and removing dodgejump / double jump.

(No suggestions of race bashing please. I consider stating that most race players have poor aim to be valid.)

However, this topic is rapidly making clear that the situation cannot continue as it currently is. As such, Venom maps will now actually be reworked as I had suggested before - with factories spawning a different vehicle depending on the playercount. It has already been said in a previous thread that the problem with Venoms in particular is that they are far too destructive at lower playercounts, becoming much more easily destroyed at high. The factory for this should be part of the existing structure.

[iRobot]

If by race players having bad aim, you mean me, then sure. I'm posting my OWN opinion of the Venom, and I feel it is too difficult to hit in the hands of someone who can move and shoot at the same time.

[Azarael]

I read the thread and wasn't referring to you. The only reason I don't get hit is because of ducking under the road.

[iZumo]

I don't like the suggestion that because race players in general can't aim, the mobility should be nerfed. Otherwise we might as well suggest that Assault could be made tolerable by slowing the players down and removing dodgejump / double jump.

I think you're missing one thing and that AS is centered on AS players including their expected skill and playstyle (such as "no shieldrunning" etc.), RACE on the other hand is centered on RACE players and their (lower) skill and comfortable play. It's why in the poll Raptor comes out as a complete winner, while Venom and Dragonfly have mixed opinions. Besides AS was already made tolerable towards RACE players - but rather by means like AS-Legowars etc. The other way (RACE more tolerable towards AS) was met with refusal (lolcar shielding @ dfly; anti-air Havoc only, etc.) from the RACE players, something that's not happening over "crappy AS maps" from AS players.

btw. The difficulty to hit an agile aircraft is also caused by ping and quite significantly due to moving bender speed (I described it in the Venom topic.).

[Azarael]

Ping shouldn't be factored into balance.

[Calypto]

Ping shouldn't be factored into balance.

I find this a violation of my rights as a high pinger.

[Shihan]

Slightly off topic but what is considereda good or bad ping?

[proof]

That always depends on the actualy game, the gametype, the server etc. On a DM or TAM server a ping below 20 is considered good, 20-50 is still alright, 50+ is already considered quite bad.
On a 32(?)-slot Race Server I guess everything below 60 is a good ping lol.