The future of the Invasion server

Discuss the BW-Invasion server here.
iZumo
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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by iZumo » Fri 18 Sep , 2020 11:53 pm

So, give monsters EMP and no more escapes to safe zone

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Richo
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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Richo » Sat 19 Sep , 2020 11:19 pm

The future of the Invasion server, there is none.

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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by DickerPitter » Sun 20 Sep , 2020 5:12 pm

It would have been so easy. As I had previously proposed. Implement a 30 min. time-limit on each round and otherwise reconfig the server as it was 6 month ago. All the admins AND the players complains would have been solved.
- No over-farming
- No server blocking
+ More fighting action

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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Richo » Sun 20 Sep , 2020 10:08 pm

Too right but they won't listen. If it happens i might be back, if not I won't.

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BlackIce
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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by BlackIce » Sat 26 Sep , 2020 12:54 am

I appreciate both parties concerns and whilst it is objectively true that the Administrators have the deciding factor, I would like to impart my own experiences. There are valid concerns regarding the system and the functionality of a few mechanics. However, It's hard to argue against what is perceived to be the boundary of fair-play versus what is considered cheating or stretching those boundaries.

Some players may indeed be bad at the game or not able to input a considerable amount of time outside of hobbies or other activities. I may even be one of those not so skilled players though I pride myself in achieving considerable ranks in other games. Diamond or near enough.

Now I'm most certainly fond of the old way of doing things in regards to being able to setup in certain areas. Though when I played on Anathema there were certainly a lot more individuals around, so I suppose nostalgia and close knit community have a part in that. The baseline however, is that there aren't that many players around these days most likely due to the difficulty of the server but I am not advocating lowering that difficulty. The 'Out of Bounds' system I can understand implementing though it does leave a lot of areas that are indeed accessible, inaccessible. Taking damage that ramps up considerably for simply standing on a pipe or behind a haystack (Made deliberately accessible by design to the point monsters can quite happily wander in). But as stated you are not selling a product so this is more reasoning or petitioning.

A round timer (As pitter suggested) would be good, that would allow the elimination of AFK farming that being out of boundaries could present. Perhaps a system that initiates damage over time for being AFK I.E no input from peripherals after a certain period of time would eliminate OOB farming and allow map vote for players who cannot join due to AFK farming. In regards to 'Out of Bounds' NFUD use I would argue that some maps are extremely harsh to play without some form of means to mitigate monsters or having strength in numbers (More players). And considering that there is a play once wait for sequence? This means that some maps are essentially forced and given the Adrenaline nerf, it makes setup not more difficult but tedious and punishing.
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I'll use World of Warcraft as an example here: They added GCD (Global Cooldown) changes that resulted in an increased wait time between pressing abilities, their arguement was to make the choice players do worth more. A player would have to decide between popping trinket, or placing (Spell) on whatever they were engaged with. It had the opposite effect, instead of making combat engaging and exciting, it made it painfully slow and unnecessarily tedious.

You are not pushing a product, correct. But you are receiving donations out of goodwill, allowing lesser level players a chance be it from having a reprieve out of boundaries or from faster ADR spawns would in theory entice them to stay and some of those could turn into potential donators if they decide they like the gameplay or the server itself. You profit, we profit.

But in the end you, having set up the server, have the deciding say. Some may have setup to AFK but those of us who might not possess the skillset or simply enjoyed having an exciting element added to the base gameplay by experiencing OOB grew fond. We are concerned players.

I hope this at least prompted consideration.
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Azarael
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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Azarael » Sat 26 Sep , 2020 10:07 am

The check for being out of bounds checks your proximity to the path node network. If you are in an area with no network connections, the monsters can't find you. That is not acceptable. Some maps were deliberately designed for cheese purposes, with network connections not provided to certain areas. Those maps are also intended to be hit, and I've edited them to path them in. I notice that not a single map has been reported to the thread I created for the purpose.

There are issues with Invasion at the moment, yes. Vast numbers of issues going right down to the core game design. You just didn't acknowledge them because the name of the game was exploiting OOB, abusing wall penetration, voting cheese / adrenaline spam maps or using AI to fight while sitting in a safe zone, and everyone who didn't want to play that kind of tedium left (or never joined in the first place), leaving only the people who could accept and were liable to defend bad gameplay through the process of natural selection. Accordingly, now that measures exist to prevent such abuse, there appears to be a large backlash.

Some of the issues can be dealt with, but the creation of a viable (i.e. not brain dead) Invasion experience requires a major overhaul to AI, RPG (total restructure - it's amazing that you even die, given how ludicrously overpowered RPG makes you), player movement (it is way too strong), maps, and monster attacks, movement and behaviour (all too powerful). I was on the fence about doing it before, but I'm definitely not doing it on LDG now, for a lot of reasons, one of which is that you'd just end up with Killing Floor or a similar game, which is what the people who are actually interested in playing a PvE shooter experience are playing...

Also, I don't profit from you. I've never seen a penny out of LDG. The server hosters are the ones who take donations.

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Satin
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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by Satin » Sat 26 Sep , 2020 11:19 am

Some points from me (you most likely won't like those either)

I'd introduce something similar to the CAMPER timer that's on BW Pro although for a significantly longer duration - this would stop the AFK farmers.

I'd remove all monster herding and quite possibly turrets too, lets make killing monsters personal rather than by remote object. Also handily stops players hiding and hoovering up XP by letting the objects do their work for them.

I'd probably reduce the amount of monsters by a % to offset for this.

Caveat - I haven't been on Inv for a while as it just got so .... boring, and frustrating seeing all the blatant cheating.

now to address these words.

'Or simply enjoyed having an exciting element added to the base gameplay by experiencing OOB grew fond'

It's exciting going AFK under a map while letting your monsters kill everything ? Why bother playing in that case.
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'I would argue that some maps are extremely harsh to play without some form of means to mitigate monsters or having strength in numbers (More players)'

That doesn't compute either because as more players join, more monsters are spawned to compensate.

A round timer isn't a bad idea though.

Ultimately though as Aza said, the whole Inv concept is really really badly flawed, tell you what though, if you play Inv on other servers (there are a few) you'll see it's even worse on those.
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BlackIce
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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by BlackIce » Sat 26 Sep , 2020 12:01 pm

I'll take the time to answer a few of your questions albeit probably rhetorical, Aza, Satin. I appreciate the prompt replies though, most private developments seldom reply quickly at all.
In regards to the 'Out of Bounds' system Aza, I can demonstrate areas that it may consider inaccessible. In regards to dying, I am fairly low level at the moment so it's entirely possible I have not built my character correctly. As for profiting, I'm sorry to hear that you seem a large part of additions or alterations to the server.

Satin: "It's exciting going AFK under a map while letting your monsters kill everything ? Why bother playing in that case." The added element of it being possible besides the tried and true moving around the map, is exciting. I like being on the ground or creating small areas with totems and what have you. But I can see and understand why many appreciate the added ability to setup out of the map - perhaps not below the map to an extreme degree. As stated by previous posts many of the maps have built in assistance and no block volume to stop bullets.

"That doesn't compute either because as more players join, more monsters are spawned to compensate." You are correct, I'd forgotten about this though mostly down to the fact when I play it's with one other player.

Megadrin was not addressed though, what are your stances on that? Though it might be obvious given changes were made outlining your stances.
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BlackIce
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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by BlackIce » Sat 26 Sep , 2020 5:09 pm

As an addition in regards of combatting the +1 exploit I would suggest perhaps adding a line of code that prevents switching weapons when using the +1/+2 modifiers this would allow the continuation of +1/+2 as intended.
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BlackIce
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Re: The future of the Invasion server

Post by BlackIce » Mon 28 Sep , 2020 12:07 am

Final update: Rebuilt character correctly, seem to be able to do quite well against waves.
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