U say give u vid then u ban me

[bOnO]

OK, so let's be practical:

You say you know who is botting and grouping in gangs: give names. Unless you're also afraid of what they could do to you?

There is a lot of players on your servers who not only bot on them (give names?) but have sat in other servers outright botting laughing at people just being cruel and mean to others, the more others complain the more it would be like they have won.

So What? We and YOU just close your eyes because they have won before the battle?

On top of this the attitude seems here to be to dismiss, suggest to people maybe there incorrect and really this or that happened whilst trying to keep an amicable tone.

Where do you see this? We're trying to solve your problem and you feel "dismissed"?...

I don't do demo's, there a waste of time [...]. I get demo can be a bit more manipulated in realtime

You don't want to make a video to show who is botting, you may want to take a screenshot then (but it can also be manipulated with photoshop).

[AndyMc]

Yeah a ss isn't really good enough, ya right it could be manipulated in ps.

Do you really want names of known botters, or will this just end up in excuses made for them?

What happens is some are like administrators and stuff, would that make a difference?

But I'm not afraid, I don't do wannabe or follow the leader.

[Azarael]

I'd be interested to see any evidence that any aimbot is able to detect whether another REMOTE CLIENT is recording a demo. There is absolutely no reason why, even if the server should be informed that a client is recording a demo, the server would then choose to replicate that information to other remote clients. It doesn't concern them so it isn't replicated.

Aimbots will pick up whether another player is logged in as admin, sure. That information is replicated so that local clients can display the "ADMIN" tag in the F1 menu.

Provide names, provide evidence, or we're just going to go around in circles.

[AndyMc]

Well look man u know I'm no n00b in the game, I tbh don't' see anyone of any great skill in there, some ok players but no like real skilful players.
I'm not being rude saying that, there are some good players in there but you said before your one of the best and for me you play ok'ish.
That's why I like some botting or it can get boring, like as if putting server bots on easy and owning for hours on hours.

Also you notice I won't make the accusations normally when there winning, but when there not, else that tends to be slung someone is being a bad loser. I normally accuse after I've got top score and owned them out but it's a pain playing though the crap they use all the time just to own them. It only ends in them either using lots getting in more m8s and then others suffer for this.
So i'm not no n00b complaining about losing, , as I can see the skill of others and as of yet I don't see a huge amount. But like back in my old server people got better learning from each other then all became good players with each others skills.

It can become very silly if I push a little and play cos then people are jumping on the spot like n00bs spamming shotgun out there back and side with out a clue where you are actually placed around them.

One thing I do for fun when someone bots me is keep going around them the same direction, they normally run out of mouse room and get frustrated and find it hard then out the back spams a shot and they don't even know where you are hehe.

I think the sprint should be taken out though then people can't use speed hacks and pass them off as sprint.

But in the servers most the time I'm lol at the amount of botting in there and no one with enough skill to see it or they see it and ignore it, I don't' know but it's sorta a bit of a joke sometimes.

Az when I made claims I can play a lot better, if I played and demo'd my self I don't even know if the demo could keep up. I know anyone watching wouldn't be able to keep up.

But I'll give ya an example, one time years ago when I ran the PC LAN Club, it was an online/offline club for local and non local, I was shown a vid by a teen and he was hanging with the wrong type online at the time and he showed me this video, to show off how good his m8 was.
I said his botting, "WTF????" was the obvious reply, lots of debating and shit later I then got them to replay the video, they still didn't see so I slowed the vid right down to somit like 3 fps, then they see the botting.
There is a lot of people out there who call themselves pro, most tbh these days are just n00bs with bot wannabees, but I'm no a pro but I can play like one, you get to a standard then when you have done most things others try to fake you see instantly what is and isn't real.
But I'll then look, watch, push here and there before making any accusations, so I don't just get killed and cry.

I'll try demo myself sometime, it tends to cause a bit of lag though at the speed I play, not speed as in how fast I move.

I'm not trying to rub anyone's nose in it, I can back up what I say any time else I wouldn't say it, it's more about allowing others too act justly.

[Azarael]

I'd be interested to see any evidence that any aimbot is able to detect whether another REMOTE CLIENT is recording a demo. There is absolutely no reason why, even if the server should be informed that a client is recording a demo, the server would then choose to replicate that information to other remote clients. It doesn't concern them so it isn't replicated.

Aimbots will pick up whether another player is logged in as admin, sure. That information is replicated so that local clients can display the "ADMIN" tag in the F1 menu.

Provide names, provide evidence, or we're just going to go around in circles.

[AndyMc]

On top of this the attitude seems here to be to dismiss, suggest to people maybe there incorrect and really this or that happened whilst trying to keep an amicable tone.

Where do you see this? We're trying to solve your problem and you feel "dismissed"?...

[bOnO]

Do you really want names of known botters, or will this just end up in excuses made for them?

What happens is some are like administrators and stuff, would that make a difference?

But I'm not afraid, I don't do wannabe or follow the leader.

You're not afraid? Show it.

You can't give evidences? Give names, and we'll see by ourselves.

An admin botting? I'm expecting to see evidences there.

You play so fast that you can't demo yourself? Is it a joke, or YOU are actually speed hacking?

You're quoting me against Azarael as if he was dismissing you? He only asks you proofs of what you're saying, and telling you that botters leave traces even if they try to hide.
Since the server exists, we've banned tenth of botters and it won't stop.

[AndyMc]

I did say not as in how fast I move.

If I post names then that's a whole new can of worms, and tbh when some of the n00b names too are up there an even them are in there botting it's going put egg in faces and I don't want to make any people look bad.
Beside some of them using bot I actually like playing against, if they didn't have the bots it would be boring as hell.
I am only interested in naming those who abuse with it, use it as a abusive bullying weapon.

I tried subtly hinting in the server several times as if to check these people out but it was dismissed.
So I am not going to try force people into awkward situation with people they know, I will just let them admins know who is and aint and they can just not be bitch to some no one kiddymanvestite.

If my ban is lifted, maybe it already has I don't know but if it is then I will just play at quiet times when there in other servers causing them admins probs. If you kicked them out then ya just gonna have a bunch of nasty kiddymen making things harder.

I ain't gonna be the root of all that, when I ran a server I rarely banned people, only the few I knew were never going to stop lamming with bots, most I was able to convince into going clean in our server and it worked.
I did kick people but only to get their attention, but yes it was very hard dealing with people who been regulars for years, again a chat with them normally did it.
In the end I was too relaxed, but I was busy running a pc retail so had less time but eventually a lot had bots because I didn't deal with it. But for about 3 1/2 years it was clean and the quality of games when clean is so much different. It was a LMS server before TLMS then TAM, the TLMS was a lil sucky back then.

Besides it shouldn't be down to me to tell you who bots in there, tbh most who do are pretty easy to see, it wouldn't take much to just jump in as non admin, play a bit n00b and go more for who ya think might be botting then ya see it.
But ya need to play dif, I dont' know what it's like for others but I can normally see who someone is form there play, from the little things they do in there strategy, movement etc.

So it's clearer, I will throw phrases in, harmless to the innocent but maybe offensive to those others.
Often they will be the first to jump in with referring stuff when no one was actually mentioned.
I do this because I really like decent people and pretty much despise dishonest people, it's the easiest thing any human can do yet the worst. For me this is a fast and quick way to checkout someone's cards.

But it does seem like some of you admin's really want to stop cheaters and are genuinely trying to remove the cheaters, which is a sorta a nice breath of fresh air.

[iZumo]

In short: post name and evidence - otherwise nothing is going to happen.

[Takeo]

But it does seem like some of you admin's really want to stop cheaters and are genuinely trying to remove the cheaters, which is a sorta a nice breath of fresh air.

This statement of yours totally opposes your entire behaviour here.
Could you - without using metaphors and double meanings - tell us....
a) if you are against the botters
b) if you want to support us to get them out of the game
c) what you expect from the admins here

I am sorry, people, but this conversation is not leading anywhere until AndyMc talks in plaintext. On one side he complains about the inappropriate behaviour of the admins and subliminaly insults their administration of the server (at least I feel that way). On the other hand he says that the cheaters/botters shall remain on the server and now he opines that it is good that (at least) some admins try to clean the server from those kiddymen/cheaters/botters (see the Quotation in this post).

I am very receptive to suggestions which intend to support the project (in this case our servers).
But with all due respect, guys, LDG servers now exist for more than 4 to 5 years. Keeping this, the fact that we lead the gametracker (as I posted before) and our participation in UTAN lead me to the conclusion that our way of working is simply the most efficient way which can be reached with the amount of competent admins and ressources (which are by the way the most powerful among the existing ut server as far as I know).

I will follow this thread for a while and see if anything useful happens here. In other words: Names and clear text.