LDG-Gaming

I'd always assumed that was a deliberate feature to make it easier to cycle which weapons were being dual wielded. Suppose it could be annoying to people not used to using the number keys for selection, though.

I wanted to comment about some of the recent changes:
Pistols are in Primary and secondary slots:
-why would I select a pistol over other weapons as rifles, snipers, shotguns, smg which are by far more effective?
Note: Dual wield is not effective because you need to reload 2 times.
-Selection of sandbag,shield and defibs alone? Well, defibs are the less of the bad options...
-the options in the pistol slot have melee now, Is likely now that many weapons in this slot become absolutely unused. Why not to allow melee selection in both slots, reduce melee damage to half and allow a double wield melee with actual damage?

-New button for melee of certain weapons is disconcerting, I would prefer to use this button for the special. This change has made some weaps OP as Sk410, M783 and the Skirth, because of easy access to the second mode. Some other weaps bit UP as MRS-138 (Tasser is useless) and deer master. AK-490 still has its melee in secondary intact, and obviously is now broadly used as all the ones in the OP listed above.

Cylo FS... well I will say this weapon primary puts you as user in disadvantage... it is, in its current state, the most idiotic weapon to use of all. You aim correctly and don't hit the target (even when is static), at a middle range distance is useless compared to any other assault. To not be able to hit the opponent means you do not inflict any damage normally, so to have higher damage per shot is just to multiply any number by 0. You have self damage from overheating and proximity to any object being it teammate,wall, opponent... anything will give you self damage. Shotgun is the new feature, is ok, but I preferred the only melee version.
... yes, we all know the intention of this weapon against groups, but is ineffective: there are few situations when you require this, and because of the overheating it is not enough to counter a group of opponents charging you. Maybe is the antithaw weapon. Anyway became again unpopular.

Go ask giZmo about how effective dual wield is.

Azarael wrote:Go ask giZmo about how effective dual wield is.

... are you tired Aza? .. I'll just check it myself..

Butcher wrote:I wanted to comment about some of the recent changes:
Pistols are in Primary and secondary slots:
-why would I select a pistol over other weapons as rifles, snipers, shotguns, smg which are by far more effective?
Note: Dual wield is not effective because you need to reload 2 times.

There are several pistols that are extremely effective in dual wield. Some like the AM67 do not handle it well, but others like the MD24 are extremely dangerous, and compare quite favorably to SMGs and hip-accurate rifles.

Butcher wrote: -New button for melee of certain weapons is disconcerting, I would prefer to use this button for the special. This change has made some weaps OP as Sk410, M783 and the Skirth, because of easy access to the second mode. Some other weaps bit UP as MRS-138 (Tasser is useless) and deer master. AK-490 still has its melee in secondary intact, and obviously is now broadly used as all the ones in the OP listed above.

The addition of a new button is difficult to adjust to, but not really that bad. My mouse bindings are:
M1: Fire
M2: Sights
M3: Secondary fire
Thumb1: Melee
Thumb2: Weapon Special 1
This just leaves weapon special 2 to be bound somewhere on keyboard, and there are precious few weapons that make use of Special2. Though that does make me wonder, are there any weapons with both a melee fire and a Special2 function? Probably, but my brain isn't working right now.

As for it making some weapons OP by making their alternate firemodes easier to use. . . That seems like a silly argument. None of those firemodes are being buffed. All it does for the skrith rifle is save you a buttonpress. Doesn't even significantly save time, since you're likely to be bringing up sights when changing to secondary fire, as primary has good hip accuracy and secondary is very inaccurate from hip.

Butcher wrote: Cylo FS...

Our last LAN had one of the better players using the Cylo FS almost exclusively as his primary, and doing quite well across DM / CTF / JB with it, mostly using single shots from the hip at medium range. I really don't see the FS as a particularly spammy weapon right now, I felt like you need to fairly high accuracy to get much out of it. I will say the secondary might need nerfed a bit either in terms of splash radius or push. Saw a lot of people pushed off of FaceClassic by secondaries fired from up on the tower.

Rymosrac wrote: There are several pistols that are extremely effective in dual wield. Some like the AM67 do not handle it well, but others like the MD24 are extremely dangerous, and compare quite favorably to SMGs and hip-accurate rifles.

I agree that some combinations are very good in dual wield, that is why it was a KS1 alternative, it can be dangerous or out of balance in the moment. Nontheless, it has the down that it takes too much time to reload, or double reload time. Yesterday, Yanriel played TDM, DM and some Freon with only dual wield, he didn't have such good results as he normally does. Anyway there were some pistols as Bort in flare mode that were 1 shot 1 kill, you just have to hit correctly. Maybe is a better option for someone that has a Hip playing style, I tend to aim with iron sights most of the time.
It does not bother me to have the possibility of pistols in dual wield mode, but it bothers me to have such bad options in the melee and pistol slot when you do not want to have the double wield option. I liked my blodhound and X4, load out. Now I have to select between the shield, sandbag, ICIS and defibs.

Rymosrac wrote:The addition of a new button is difficult to adjust to, but not really that bad. My mouse bindings are:
M1: Fire
M2: Sights
M3: Secondary fire
Thumb1: Melee
Thumb2: Weapon Special 1
This just leaves weapon special 2 to be bound somewhere on keyboard, and there are precious few weapons that make use of Special2.

As for me, I use a Joystick and a naga with lots of buttons. Sometimes I use an Orbweaver (but could be any kb). The changing the previous buttons and add new features in another button could be done just by adding the features in the other button, and leaving you to the settings as you are used to.

Rymosrac wrote: Though that does make me wonder, are there any weapons with both a melee fire and a Special2 function?

Cylo FS, Cylo UAW, MRS-138, MK-783 ... the irony is that these are the weapons I use more often, so the button change affected me a lot...
AK-490, but this one was not modified.

Rymosrac wrote:As for it making some weapons OP by making their alternate firemodes easier to use. . . That seems like a silly argument. None of those firemodes are being buffed. All it does for the skrith rifle is save you a buttonpress. Doesn't even significantly save time, since you're likely to be bringing up sights when changing to secondary fire, as primary has good hip accuracy and secondary is very inaccurate from hip.

Sk410 and Skirth specially have the slot and power blast modes which are as strong as the normal primary. Prior to the changes, you needed to change the mode and then use it, and not many people were able to change mode during combat. Or it required you to press 2 buttons. As now, you go with a Sk410, and just select : in short range left click, in middle-long range right click. You can play exclusively with this weapon.

Skirth power Blast is deadly on impact and when there is steam additional its very difficult to counter. Is like putting Dark/Nova staff rapid fire in primary and bolt in secondary fire and melee in special.

It does save a lot of time and minimizes the effort of using these 2 weapons. Ask Skaldy and Capaco (Sk410) or Bufty (Skirth) their opinion on these 2 weapons....

Rymosrac wrote:Our last LAN had one of the better players using the Cylo FS almost exclusively as his primary, and doing quite well across DM / CTF / JB with it, mostly using single shots from the hip at medium range. I really don't see the FS as a particularly spammy weapon right now, I felt like you need to fairly high accuracy to get much out of it. I will say the secondary might need nerfed a bit either in terms of splash radius or push. Saw a lot of people pushed off of FaceClassic by secondaries fired from up on the tower.

I'm not sure that the settings and balance are the same either for DM/CTF/JB, as also for offline games. In the online balance CYLO FS is practically useless now. Maybe is just me that saw my favorite weapon become shitty again. Its been so many times changed over the last years... what can I say... if is moderate good or average, but becomes popular and then all complain that is OP. Yes a player with some skill will kill you often with any good weapon... doesn't imply the weapon is OP.

Butcher wrote:Ask Skaldy (Sk410)...

I hadn't been using alt+fire on SK-410 at all. I only use it as a short range (last resort) wep that suits my high mouse sensitivity & play style. However, I just tried the alt+fire and you're right about the mid-range, so thanks for that.

It's easy to forget features and get stuck in lazy habits, so I appreciate the continual striving for improvement here.

CYLO FS is practically useless now

I've been playing with random weapons recently and it's fun because sometimes the weapons are fine and sometimes I get 2 sniper rifles and katana. When I get FS I'm usually happy because to me it's one of the most powerful weapons here. I guess it just fits my style of playing most because you're still complaining, but to me this is the only weapon in BW which allows me to kill 4 enemies in a row without even reloading. It's huge magazine and fast reloading makes it possible to just jump around and keep shooting as long as you want. All you have to do is switch it to the burst mode and keep your distance from the enemy.
And I'm not even talking about shooting into the crowd with FS.

Aberiu wrote:

CYLO FS is practically useless now

I've been playing with random weapons recently and it's fun because sometimes the weapons are fine and sometimes I get 2 sniper rifles and katana. When I get FS I'm usually happy because to me it's one of the most powerful weapons here. I guess it just fits my style of playing most because you're still complaining, but to me this is the only weapon in BW which allows me to kill 4 enemies in a row without even reloading. It's huge magazine and fast reloading makes it possible to just jump around and keep shooting as long as you want. All you have to do is switch it to the burst mode and keep your distance from the enemy.
And I'm not even talking about shooting into the crowd with FS.

You mean Hip + burst?
The main issue I have now is not related to damage, damage is huge when you hit. The issue is accuracy, you don't impact any bullets when aiming correctly (in Auto) at least. Thankx, I'll give it a try like you suggest -> hip + burst.

No, I usually aim. Though sometimes when I don't have any time to raise sights hip+burst helps a lot too.
But my main issue with FS in auto has always been exactly the same - I can't land a shot when it's firerate is so slow. Might be because of my ping, slow fire rate weapons are really unpredictable to me.
Burst mode helps me land at least one shot and avoid overheating.
Also, to me FS is more of a retreat than assault weapon. It works best when you're being pursued or stay away from the fight in general.