LDG-Gaming

Izumo_CZ wrote:Anyway, looks like nothing more is going to be added towards damage discussion.

In which case I shall stick to my version, but other things like finishing the balancer and adding a decay for inactivity.

All damage should count toward a player's skill. Be it positive or negative damage.

Healing should also reduce skill, since it's time spent not doing damage, that could have been spent doing damage.

Calypto wrote:

Izumo_CZ wrote:Anyway, looks like nothing more is going to be added towards damage discussion.

In which case I shall stick to my version, but other things like finishing the balancer and adding a decay for inactivity.

All damage should count toward a player's skill. Be it positive or negative damage.

+100 deaths

Izumo_CZ wrote:I agree and never denied "if you aim better and evade better than another player, you should be considered more skilled", but there is also "if you have the same ability to aim and evade as another player, but are more successful in doing game objectives whether direct or indirect, you should be considered more skilled".

Already agreed that thaws and winrate should be factored. Muh dmg system plz, otherwise G28s will continue to be required equipment for anyone farming skill.

Azarael wrote:

Izumo_CZ wrote:I agree and never denied "if you aim better and evade better than another player, you should be considered more skilled", but there is also "if you have the same ability to aim and evade as another player, but are more successful in doing game objectives whether direct or indirect, you should be considered more skilled".

Already agreed that thaws and winrate should be factored. Muh dmg system plz, otherwise G28s will continue to be required equipment for anyone farming skill.

-> http://www.ldg-gaming.eu/viewtopic.php? ... =80#p13697

>linking me to the post I quoted

Shiggy

Ah, fail. Allright, for a recap we have two directives for skill:

A) "if you aim better and evade better than another player, you should be considered more skilled"
B) "if you have the same ability to aim and evade as another player, but are more successful in doing game objectives whether direct or indirect, you should be considered more skilled"

In which case the constructed 1on1 example:

Izumo_CZ wrote:If you play 1on1 and hit someone gravely (say deal 90 HP dmg), but then he evades, recovers by health pickups and then kills you (and receives 10 HP damage), do you feel like that it should be 1 : 1? To me such case is a clear 1 : 0 for him, just as it is. If this happened 60 times in a row, by kills it would be 60 : 0, despite by damage it would be 60 : 60.

when being evaluated with your damage system directly conflicts with B) and thus is not eligible. Q.E.D.

Winrate and pickup control counting into the skill equation, as previously mentioned in a later post to the one you quoted. Pickup control doesn't have to be accounted for in Freon, but thawing does and winrate should be to prevent frm. Accounting for both plus damage covers everything possible.

I was merely disproving the core of the system. Technically in order to get B) in place, you'd have to start awarding points for literally everything that has strategic value, i.e pickup control, healing or generally indirect objectives of the game and thus cease being based on damage done / damage received given the fact that major gametype objectives would have to be buffed to ensure that "if you are doing a game objective and end up in better tactical position you must not be penalized" (notice that there may be no gain for the case of farming), or in FR more specific case "my skill must not lower when I'm thawing someone and engaged by an enemy whom I kill and end up with thawn teammate and replenished health". Sure it can be tuned in long-term although I'm a bit doubtful about it's reliability.

My version accounts the indirect objectives in the actual damage and thus only thawing, being a direct objective, is accounted separately.

Anti-farm measures can be overlaid over both systems to cover their weak spot.

Even a damage - damage healed system doesn't cover all strategic effects. If a player runs to heal because you've damaged them and that subsequently has a knockon effect for the remaining members of their team in an engagement, you get no credit for forcing that.

Let's keep the discussion on Freon as opposed to other gametypes, since I don't dispute that there are more issues with skill when applied to Assault or 1on1. Everyone has to thaw, and those who refuse to thaw should impact their own winrate, so I don't see why thawing has to be especially considered. If anything, consider thaws made under fire as giving bonus points.